August 19, 2017, 03:34 am

Author Topic: Problems of ByB  (Read 959 times)

Offline BlueNova

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Problems of ByB
« on: June 30, 2017, 09:34 pm »
I want us all to sit down and address the issues that ByB is facing and some possible ways to resolve them.

Before I begin just a little disclaimer here. This post is going to be about what needs to change within the ByB community and how the community as a whole can be improved and perhaps revived. If you donít care for this then you may want to skip reading this though if youíre going to leave a comment for either your support or disapproval of this then I ask that you please read the entire post first. Thank you.



For the past two years ByBís been steadily falling. Standing on one leg at times. The server was dead during most of 2016, then only came back in February of 2017 and has died off yet again around a month and a half ago. Some may chop it up to a lack of interest in Garryís Mod. Or stale content that isnít be improved or things of that nature. While those are true they arenít 100% of the problem.

Garryís Mod, if I am not mistaken, is still one of the most widely played games on Steam at the moment. Viewing this page on Steam itís currently sitting at around the number eleven spot. So a staleness to the came can only be boiled down to a lack of changes on our part. And thatís what Iím here to talk about. Things within the community of ByB that should be changed if we would like to see it come back to life. The things range from server content, the administration team, the economy of the server and other factors. So letís begin in a list style fashion.



The Economy

Currently the economy on the server is absolute dog smeg. Itís very easy to players to come on and within a few hours have millions of dollars in order to buy whatever they please and at that point why bother to play if you have everything? Theyíll play for a few hours and then theyíre off. Thereís not enough incentive to make money if itís so easy to get a two million dollar car. The joy some people get of grinding for something just isnít there.

Therefore, we could attempt to stabilize the economy by either reducing how much money is earned or making goods more expensive. We could do a total cash wipe and then some price balancing (which I believe to be a better idea) or just do a steady cash wipe. And perhaps a wipe of certain cars and entities they own so thereís an incentive to make money to get those goods back. I believe that the best solution would be wiping cash and entities owned by players then stabilizing prices and the economy so that itís not so easy to get everything in a single day. FukaJones has said heís easily earned over twenty million dollars like it was nothing. If earning twenty million dollars is nothing then I feel as if thatís a problem. Yes from RP4 to RP Rebirth everything is more expensive yet itís so easy to get the millions of dollars to buy everything it almost doesnít make a difference.



Supporter Tools

I know this one is the root of many players leaving the server. Just today we witnessed someone going from saying he thought the server could prove fun to saying he hated it because of some of the supporter tools that were restricted.

Now yes, I agree that supporters need some things that only they have access too. Yet restricted a tool like material just seems a bit far in my eyes. I havenít the slightest clue as to why material is supporter only and everyone Iíve talked to donít know why either. I just donít believe that tools as basic to building as that need to be restricted. Yes ColorMater is a thing yet most people either donít care or need material. Myself not being a builder I wouldnít understand why. So this one would be simple. Just give public access to material back. Iíve seen more people than Iím comfortable with leaving because of something as petty as this. If there is a good reason as to why material is restricted then my apologies and I would love to hear the reason.



Server Content

As for server content I will not sit here and say that the server is lacking in content. To me it isnít but I enjoy playing SWAT so it can get a bit tedious mind you. What Iím saying is at times there seems to be just periods where nothing changes and nothing seem fresh. That can kill the enthusiasm some people have when playing. Or when thereís a bug that needs to be fixed and nothingís done to fix it for months. It can make some people aggravated and such. Iím not saying endlessly pump the server with new stuff. Perhaps every month or so we could host an event. Not just when people get bored and say ďDo you want to have a build event?Ē the night before. Organized events could spur some excitement. Or just small little gimmicky changes to the server.

This also falls to a lack of suggestions being implemented. Iíve seen a lot of suggestions being made and a lot of people wanting some change and yet those never get implemented. Theyíre more than likely ignored which is a tad bit disheartening because it sends the message that it doesnít matter. True some of them are horrible but perhaps there are some hidden treasures in there thatíre turned down because they werenít necessarily practical or something of the likes. Itís understandable that we donít have full time programmers for the server. Since any real life obligation takes priority to the server and many of the roots have work or family matters to attend. However it sometimes feels as though nothingís getting done. While listening to Adam S he makes the point that Chas asked people to post suggestions for the server a while back and they got ignored. Just seems a bit cold shouldered and what not.

To fix this we could implement more changes or accept more suggestions. Or perhaps even host events for special occasions and what not. It seems the only one who ever hosted events was Deluxe and he isnít here to do that anymore.



Administration

This one may be one of the more rant based ones so please bear with me as I go through this.

It was made apparent to me that towards the end, right before the server went flat line, that the administration seemed to become increasingly hostile towards some players. I am guilty of this myself at times because letís face it. You canít escape idiots. But itís especially bad from moderators. I know we can punish them for their behavior or misconduct but a lot of them seem to have this high and mighty attitude to them that I donít believe anyone should have really. I feel anyone with a ďholier than thouĒ attitude is immature. They get this from just having a rank on a Garryís Mod server. From this I suggest that we crack down a lot harder on the attitude of moderators.

Another thing being the lack of caring. So many upper staff just donít seem to care and do whatever it is they please. I would agree in saying a little fun is nice and could be used to lighten the mood so we donít seem like cold hearted machines that will punish someone for stepping out of line once. Yet I feel like the leniency some of them have is a bit too much. Ignoring rule breaks or breaking rules themselves just for a little fun. And most of the time the fun that is had is pure mingery. Yes itís funny but it can be disruptful to other players. I would like to see, from out upper staff at least, an improvement in behavior. Iím not going to sit here and say that Iím not guilty of it. We all are. But I feel like a tone of seriousness is needing with the titles we carry. Itís not just a free abuse pass.

Furthermore, staff activity. Lord this one. In my time here Iíve seen two staff purges. Both of which only got rid of certain people. The most recent one of this year didnít even get rid of the bulk. It got rid of a few but not the ones that needed to go. The current staff page is littered with old super admins who donít even play anymore. Iím not suggesting a time requirement to maintain your rank but if youíve got a year without being on the server then do you really need super admin? I feel like so many of the staff on the page need to be former fluffies as they havenít seen the server for more than five minutes in the past two years. This happened last time. So many of them donít play yet somehow they got off from the purge and werenít touched. Despite it being said ďDonít come back for two weeks to preserve your powers then go away.Ē Yet thatís exactly what happened with many of them. So I ask that of all the super and trusted admins that havenít played very much since Rebirth went up be moved to Former Fluffy seeing as they donít play anymore. If they come back thatís wonderful. You could give them two weeks playing with Former Fluffy and if they are serious about coming back then I say having their old rank back would be a good idea.



Favoritism

I feel as if this is perhaps the worst problem ByB has. The favoritism among the higher staff to their friends that makes them immune to punishment. Firstly I want to say youíll never get rid of favoritism. This guy or girl if your friend and you donít want to hurt their feelings or whatever by punishing them for being a smeg to other players. Yet I feel like itís gone a little far in some cases (no names mentioned). For this I just want more seriousness to be focused on all players being equal to being punished and reprimanded. No favoritism because theyíre your friends or because of even their rank. It sends a message to the regular players that thereís a very strong biased here and trust me. That turns a lot of people away..



I believe thatís it. This is simply part one. I could have more parts to add on to this if I deem it necessary. You guys could add on to this if you want as well. I look forward to your questions, comments and concerns. I know this was a very long post so forgive me if at some points I seem incoherent.

Thanks,
BlueNova


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Offline Caspari

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2017, 10:24 pm »
I'm actually glad someone had the audacity to post focusing the main issues the ByB community has been facing for the past year or so. Yes, some players have been discussing about said problems and how we can fix them, and a little more on our opinions on how to fix them.

So, here are my opinions:

The Economy

Not much to say here: BlueNova has hit all the points. It is safe to say that, yes, the economy is straight up bonked the heck out. Nice to have first hand players to verbally state that in a few hours, they've made a few million to buy whatever they please. I really do not understand how we can justify the amount of money we get from the printers by increasing the prices of weapons and introducing expensive cars. I know multiple people that bought every single car in the game and have a few mil. left over. Then what? Spend their money on guns and such? This is what decreases population. They have nothing to spend their money on, which leads to people not bothering to use printers anymore since they have money leftover, which leads to not RPing at all, which ultimately leads to people leaving the server. I do agree on the whole wipe of entities + cash. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to speak in a different language to voice my opinions out, but hopefully you understand what I'm trying to get out of this.

Supporter Tools

Remove some tools. Not all, some. That's it. It's tiring at this point people in OOC cry on how some tools are restricted to supporters and it's unfair for players who can't afford it. I know they're bull smegting us, but come on. As BlueNova stated, a player said in OOC that he hated the server just on how we run said tools; materials. And he left. I'm guessing that sparked an issue of change, which I totally support.

Server Content

Server content is a big topic to just talk about. However, I'm just going to shorten it in one word: Listen. So much people, in the servers and forums, talk about different addons we can add to the server. Many players agree with these suggestions, and no upper-admins do something with them! It bothers me to see this; people want the server to have more content and no one is doing anything to implement these in the server. The new skin for mercenary? Never implemented. Reworks to Master Thief and Meth Cook? Never implemented. Just please, listen to the community! That what strengthens the connection to the players to the developers!

Administration

Yes, I know I was promoted to Trusted Admin on Mother's Day, so I do not know how this'll go with other admins. When I go to the 'staff' tab on the forums, I see a plentiful of Super Admins and Trusted Admins who don't even play on the server. Instead their activity is shown based on their forum activity, which in my opinion is a stupid system. Activity is based on their game time. I've never seen half of the admins (both super + trusted) in the server once during my time as a Trusted Admin. I'm not saying to change the entire system on the way to promote/demote admins, but I'm saying that we should rework said system. Two purges have happened in the past years which removed inactive admins. That's a step-up. That did not take every inactive admin who think just because they're active on the forums, it means they're active on the servers. As for the moderators, that's a completely different story. It is very hard to see moderators that actually help the server and aren't complete asses who think they're all high and mighty. I suggest we act more passive-aggressive towards the mods, conceited or not. Add a time limit if you need to, but I'm not forcing anyone to do it.

I'm not pointing names, so don't ask.

Favoritism

This is, by far, the worst problem that I see. Immunity can be a smeg for people that are friends with the upper admins. Bad blood can cost a lot in communities just because they're breaking rules, and admins who are supposed to take care of these problems and we can't do anything. Equal punishment please. Bias plays a very important part here. If a player is friends with an admin, then they're automatically immune to all punishment. Now, I've faced some of these problems when I'm in the server. Especially with moderators.



I think that's it so far. If I forget anything, I'll add it in. These are my opinions on what I see everyday on the servers and I really can't do anything about it.

Thanks to BlueNova for stating this in the first place. I'm glad to have a voice in this.   

Offline Loqfrican

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2017, 08:05 am »
I haven't read through the entirety of BlueNova's post and Caspari's and this isn't my final words, however, development of the Garry's Mod server is dependent on the roots who have actual jobs that tire them out. To spend your free time developing a Garry's Mod server, or spending your free time to relax from the day from the job? Many would pick to relax. I can't speak for them, but, that's how I feel about them. They are quite ancient too (jokes aside, but they are heading to late 20s) and I think they're burned out on developing.

I'll be back, perhaps, in the future to post a proper post regarding the issue. Thank you BlueNova for bringing up the topic for discussion.

Offline Rawss

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2017, 08:14 am »
I agree with a lot of the points that have been made, I'm in a similar spot to Caspari in the sense that I was promoted not long before him. There are a lot of us that are still in contact and still speak to each other on a daily basis and I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say it is easy to get burnt out on Garry's mod, it becomes a rinse and repeat cycle after a while of playing, especially when playing with a low population on the server and I'm talking when I have literally only just hit 1k hours and I can't imagine what it's like for those with 2x maybe even 3x the amount of time.

I would love for us all to get back onto the server because it is great fun when we're all on, but I'm not sure if that comes down to us messing around as you mentioned BlueNova...



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Offline Purdigeh

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2017, 10:17 am »
I'd like to start this by warning all of you that I have not proof read this at all, so expect a few mistakes here and there. Cheers.

I completely agree with every point BlueNova made. ByB really needs a jolt to get it going again, and I'm hopeful that if this post is taken seriously by not just staff above me, but all staff in general. ByB needs some sort of gimmick that's somewhat unique to the server in my opinion. If you take a look at all the popular gmod servers, there's stuff like Star Wars Roleplay, HL2RP, etc. Now I'm not suggesting that we go that route in any way at all, I think the vanilla feel of ByB is what lends itself to my personal enjoyment of this community. All the other servers with their 400 addons and all that crap is what turns me away from them. I don't want to see a HUD that blatantly copies another game, nor all of their crappy jobs while you're running at 15fps.

However, those servers do have an endless amount of content for you to engage in. You want to be the mayor and get all pumped up about surviving your term with a bunch of folks trying to kill you so you'll be demoted? Go ahead. You want to be a member of a specific Mafia and engage in battles with the opposing Mafia(s,) go ahead. The list goes on. Now I'm not saying we should add anything I mentioned in specific unless the community would like it, however I do think we're severely lacking in real roleplay, plus content in general. ByB has only ever been about the vanilla feeling which I already said is what draws me to ByB and I'm sure it draws other folks here aswell, but you can keep that vanilla gamelay style while having things I mentioned.

I mentioned "real roleplay" which I believe to be a huge issue here as you've essentially got, what, 6 actual jobs to really play and roleplay as. You've got your typical thief, master thief, meth cook and gangster. All of which just sit around in their fort knox of a base and print or cook all day long until they're as rich as Bill Gates. At that point they're completely set and can buy absolutely anything that peeks their interest - that's where the actual game and "roleplay" ends for them and soon they typically stop playing. You've got your SWAT and Police Officers who are there to defend everybody and take care of the criminals I just mentioned. And while this can be fun, a lot of the time it ends up just being tedious and annoying. "Oh look, I just got killed trying to raid this criminals base from an angle I couldn't even see him from. See ya in 5 minutes!" Of course they rarely get into the bases since it's like breaking into a prison - it's only when players coordinate as law enforcement that they succeed in their raids and whatever else.

I think law enforcement coordination should be heavily incentivized for a more realistic approach to playing as a SWAT or Police Officer. Same can be said for the criminals really, most of the time it goes like such - "yo dude u wanna raid this gun dealer?" - "yeah bro sure" - of course they succeed as the poor gun dealer stood no chance against a few big brollic armed criminals. Then they rob all of his crap and take it back to base as they wait for it to print them more money. It's just straight up boring and repetitive. You may think I have some big solution to this, but I don't. I'm not sure how proper roleplay could be incentivized. Perhaps through the means in which BlueNova stated regarding currency and such? Who knows. It's just something that I think should be done.

Speaking of currency and the economy, I think a complete reset should occur and more items for players to purchase should be added, along with new jobs, new sweps and all that stuff. As BlueNova said, either everything that makes you money should be greatly reduced or the items you can purchase should be increased in price by quite a considerable amount. It'll give players more long term goals as whatever job they enjoy playing, and it'll keep em' playing. I also think that every job should be viable and have an allure to it so the server isn't just filled with law enforcement, criminals, gun dealers and citizens like it typically is.

Lastly, administration is something that certainly needs to be dealt with. I spent most of my time spectating because I'd hear rumours constantly about so and so doing something awfully bad, and while I did catch quite a few abusers and had a couple demoted, it's just not enough. I would always hear players whining in OOC about how >insert moderator< is breaking >rule/abusing< and "omg there are staff on and nothing is being done about it!!" Things need to be stricter upon moderators, but at the same time I also think that normal players should contribute if they can or want to by catching these abusers and making tickets on them so I can smite them with a ban & admin warning. I just really want the community as a whole to get more involved in this sort of thing, if they can of course. I'd like to clarify this paragraph; if a player or moderator is breaking a rule or abusing in the moment, then of course it'll be dealt with by me, another staff member or a competent moderator. I'm just saying that I'd like it if people who were ABLE to catch these things on video or screenshot would be more active. I can't count the amount of times I've heard "I saw so and so break a rule or abuse and I caught it on video, but I'm not going to make a ticket because nothing will happen." That's ridiculous, of course they'll be dealt with. I'm not trying to say us stuff members should pin a lot of the responsibility on normal players.

So yeah, there you go.

That's all folks!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 10:37 am by Purdigeh »

Offline BlueNova

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2017, 01:10 pm »
but I'm not sure if that comes down to us messing around as you mentioned BlueNova...

Perhaps that isn't the deciding factor yet it's certainly one of them. Some people like to join in on the fun and others don't like it whatsoever and feel excluded, for lack of a better term. I wasn't suggesting "Stop having fun and becoming machines" Fun is a good thing. Perhaps move the fun to more secluded areas of the map such as the admin room or somewhere desolate. My main concern there would mainly be innocent players would get caught up in shenanigans and then think the higher staff only care about their powers for the purpose of having fun and leave.
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Offline Conor

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2017, 03:07 pm »
I'd like to start by acknowledging your rationale for making this thread. ByB is something special to a lot of people (myself included) and it's evident that changes are very much needed. Let's get into the meat-and-potatoes of it.

Starting with the economy, I understand the frustration of there being no real incentive to continue playing once you reach a certain plateau. We did try to make Rebirth more challenging with changes to printers and nerfing payouts for activities such as selling weed but that wasn't enough. We did try to add more cars as an incentive but there's only so much a flashy beemer can do. I agree with the notion that there should be more "endgame" objectives and unlockable items along the way.

With regards to supporter tool restrictions, I have previously raised the concern with Pantho of having tools such as Material blocked. I am not comfortable with it being blocked either. Pantho can give you a reason as to why it's blocked.

As you've pointed out, we need more community interaction. I absolutely understand the disappointment in this area and we can only take criticism on that part. When suggestions are posted, we do often discuss them in a root chat, but as you mention it does seem like there is no response to them. From here on, suggestions should have a clear response from a root admin - a public yes or a no as to whether they'll be added.

Addressing the concern of events, I can't say anything other than we'll try to organize more. Events can sometimes be difficult for us to set up due to time zones and irl commitments popping up.

Regarding staff inactivity, please do note that many people did get demoted earlier in the year. The certain few that popped up for a week or so and disappeared again haven't gone unnoticed.

Offline Pantho

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2017, 03:21 pm »
Won't be reading all that yet, but to point of tools.

Thought smeg: they're blocked mainly to supporter as they're easily abused NOT for money making. We don't do crap for money making much, you don't see permanent weapons and ban probation on sale dobyou.?
This is a point I'm fed up of argueing and won't change my mind on... That been said I'm too busy, so any root can change the settings/rules and I won't mind.

Ps: you mention material, perfect example. Limiting this increases FPS of players and is one of the most widely used tools to abuse other than e2.

If it was my choice is block material fully like we used to way back in the day. It's only enable now as I buckled.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 03:37 pm by Pantho »

Offline Jelman

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2017, 03:30 pm »
lemme do some information dumping

1. Many roots + pantho have been very busy in the last 6 months making it hard for them to get smeg done

2. I know many of the higher up staff are just bored of gmod atm, especially with the current byb formula (myself included)

3. The lack of content getting added, modified, removed, etc.. is 100% valid and something I've brought up to the roots many times. In addition to this many suggestions appear to be ignored when in fact they're being discussed by the roots in private. G I V E   U S   I N F O   Y O U  T W A T S

3.5 In regards to new content, I know that roots wanted to add their own versions of popular gmodstore addons that had been coded by themselves but never got around to it or if they did, would most likely be inferior to whats offered online.

4. Running DarkRP itself is very difficult.  Its the most popular mode meaning there are a LOT of smeging servers that run the exact same smeg of gmodstore / the workshop. You need to build a community that will remain daily and will draw and keep new players, THIS IS HARD.

5. Running other gmod modes, we've tried, its hard. I've got access to boot up gmod servers so i've been running ttt, sandbox and currently a gamemode called ground control (come play if you're bored, its pretty fun). If there are any other modes you want me to run holla at me on the byb discord.

6. Me and conor have also been recently looking into a Five-M RP server (or another mode). We gave up because the documentation doesnt exist and five-m itself is still very much in development making it a smegshow to work with. If theres enough want for me to continue I might.






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Offline Purdigeh

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2017, 04:17 pm »
Addressing the concern of events, I can't say anything other than we'll try to organize more. Events can sometimes be difficult for us to set up due to time zones and irl commitments popping up.

How about we just do it the ol' fashioned way and let supers make their own "mini-event" threads like myself, Deluxe & BlueNova did a couple months ago with the building competition. We've still got all the commands that Weasel added to allow us to do certain things like that, and it's rather easy for us to set it up and get it going. I'm assuming you're talking about a more involved & large event w/ roots involved though.

But like I said, it's really no issue for us active super admins to host events and have a smegload of people show up to it. It's fun and keeps everybody involved.

Offline BlueNova

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2017, 05:49 pm »
Thought smeg: they're blocked mainly to supporter as they're easily abused NOT for money making. We don't do crap for money making much, you don't see permanent weapons and ban probation on sale dobyou.?

I wanted to add that I didn't really say that I stated it was for the purpose of making money. If I implied that by mistake then my mistake. I was just confused as to why it was restricted in the first place when I believed it was open to the public on RP4.
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Offline NinjaBob

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2017, 07:11 pm »
Holy smeg, looks like someone has finally grown the balls to speak up about these problems that we seem to just skim over and say "It's an higher up decision" or "We can't do anything". I love Byb, I've met my best mates here and yes I might not have been here as long as some of you, but when I first started playing on these servers, it was technically my second home. Here's my thoughts on how we should go about this.

Economy
Blue has pretty much got all the points down. People have sat in bases with multiple gang members and just sit around printing money. My thoughts on this is to either heavily nerf the printers again to the point that it shouldn't be a primary income source or just straight out remove them. Make them go out and earn their cash, not just sit around doing nothing or afking for a bit and when they've returned, just take all that cash only to repeat the cycle.

Server Content
This is one of the most iffiest topics to talk about. As Prod said, the vanilla feel of Byb is one of its own and one of the reasons (atleast I think) many players decided to play on here. But there's a difference between vanilla and stale. Gmod as a whole has gotten pretty stale and repetitive, but we don't need to shove about 2984792347 addons to make it any more fun. I couldn't really say it any better than Caspari, but the best way to keep a community thriving, is to listen to the community. There's always suggestions, bug fixes etc always being discussed within the community but none of the higher ups seem to implement. The lack of job variety is abysmal. Sure we have a lot of job options but how many of them are actually played?

Administration and Favoritism
These pretty much go hand in hand, I've never liked the idea of buying admin/moderator whatever. It might keep the server up and stuff, but any child with their mother's credit card or an asshat with money can buy admin and abuse it. Favoritism will always be a thing. You might like someone better or know someone who doesn't act like that. But constant and blatant ignorance of rule breaks is pretty cancer.

At this point I'm getting lazy so that pretty much ends my thoughts.



Offline Danrox147

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2017, 03:56 am »
Hi my friend,

The main problem is that if there are no players on the server, no one will join. If we had 7 of us on, maybe more will join in slowly to re-populate it.

Here are some more problems (My personal beliefs and what I have seen):
Player attitude: Gmod players have changed over the years, especially in DarkRP, this doesn't specifically apply to us who have played for years, more towards the new gen of DarkRP players who have played on really bad servers with extremely strict rules such as FailRP and FearRP (Which are both cancer and just made up) and from what I have seen they join ByB, they mug someone, they get killed, cry FearRP, admin says it doesn't exist, they get mad and leave because their idea of DarkRP is crying to the admin every single time they lose.

Also towards new gen DarkRP players, they expect the moment they join the server to ask around to see if they can become staff and ask if they can apply. I am highly against this but 90% of the servers I have seen literally just hire any 11 year old kid to keep them on the server just so they can abuse and smeg up any gameplay to suit their retarded needs. A lot of players seem to be pissy when they see that you can buy admin (to be fair ByB's admin purchase system is actually run quite well) then they either just leave the server because they didn't want to pay for a staff rank and just expected one for free or become staff and get mad at the fact they're not allowed to just noclip around and not RP at all.

Addons: Now this being my personal opinion, I am going to start off with gun packs. FA:S is a great looking gun pack and works fine in single player, but in online use it is just extremely buggy and not very helpful in several situations. Only a few of the guns actually satisfy the needs of people, personally I like to just run around blasting peoples heads with the shotguns because the rest of the guns are just buggy or crappy to use. Personally I am a big fan of CSS weapons in ByB and do like the "CSS guns on the M9K base" addon as it has remodeled and updated versions of the CSS weapons, even though M9K itself is just seriously over powered, that could easily be fixed. Another pro for an M9K base is that novacars driveby shooting mode is 100% compatible with M9K packs, whilst FA:S doesn't work that well with novacars due to the way it is coded.

Addons part 2: We all know that too many addons makes DarkRP cancerous as smeg. The idea of carefully choosing addons that aren't massive in file size and have some sort of purpose in the server is quite helpful. Having that said, the server is lacking in a few addons that could potentially make the gameplay more enhanced, addons such as Quest NPCs can seriously change some of the gameplay to let players do more. NPCs such as drug running NPCs that let players run drugs while wanted adds some good exciting moments. (Inb4 kid gets arrested and leaves)

Speaking of Drugs as well, drug mods that actually have a purpose should be implemented, not the boring old drugsmod that gets backdoored all the time, I am talking about the drugmod that actually helps players. Drugs that allow the player to deal damage to a player while gaining HP for dealing that damage, double jumping, lower gravity, more bullet damage etc. would make a drug dealer job that is constantly being requested to become a reality with a purpose. That way people can have their boring drug dealer job.

Administration: This ties into what I mentioned earlier about what the modern kid who plays DarkRP expects, he expects the admin to cater to his every need. The attitude for both staff and players now days is to try their smeging hardest to put someone on a roof when the slightest breach of a rule that affects little to no gameplay has been committed, and when the admin says "I need proof to punish him" the angry 11 year old kid who reported will say how smeg the admins are and probably go on a mass rdm spree then get banned/never return.
We need to get the idea into peoples heads that admins aren't there to serve them, but to help them out when there is an actual problem that is actually affecting gameplay. Tbh RDM is retarded and shouldn't be taken as seriously. If you get RDMed and lose nothing, it isn't worth a giant 20 minute admin sit. If you were killed for literally no reason and actually lost a lot of stuff, then yeah you should be able to request the admin to get the spastic who just made you lose all of your stuff for no reason.
Having that said, the admins on ByB seem quite fine, considering how many admins are donated for. This is mainly what players see admins as.

Events: I remember these back in the good old days on RP4 and RP5, well thought out, nicely built events. More events would be great for the server to get players on. Prizes such as temporary supporter or cash prizes are great. The easter egg hunt earlier this year was a quite fun event for the first day or 2 but then kinda just turned into who can whore the most eggs. Events such as RP4s ACAB event in 2012 or RP5s Raid the drug house event were quite fun and added a great deal of excitement amongst players. Bringing back a good event night every 2 weeks or so would be quite good.

Economy: Economy will always be smeged tbh, unless we add a lot of wanted items for players to purchase or to spend their money on.
Possible idea that works:
Gang systems where they can buy upgrades for a fair bit of cash. As well as all gang members being able to chip in cash to the gang, the gang with the most money will be on the top of a leaderboard which should be visible both in game and on the forums. Then watch as players try to top that making their wallets lower but their gang cash higher (This gang cash can only be used on upgrades and can't be withdrawn)
That is a way to fix the economy amongst players.

Another idea is non-printer style. With printers you just sit there and hit E whenever you want some cash, I'd say replace that with something like drug plants that you have to water every few minutes and you can sell your plants whenever but the higher level your plant is the more cash it is worth. Making it a gamble for how long until you need to sell your stuff to make that big money rather than waiting 5 seconds for a bit of cash.

Anyways there is just a few of my ideas/input on the whole situation.
                                   ^^^^ Very True ^^^^

Offline Loqfrican

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2017, 08:27 am »
Right so here's my wall-of-paragraph of input.

As Danrox said, players attract players. No one is willing to join a dead server. The way RP-Rebirth was re-populated was due to the fact that some other player's and I decided to just hop onto the server and AFK on it or do something on it.

If we all can organize a day to be on or if staff can organize a day(s) to be on, that'd be helpful. Now let's jump straight into the problems that I personally believe exist in RP-Rebirth currently and ByB as a whole.



Players in General
Players, now in the 'modern day' of DarkRP, have changed from your 'old' DarkRP players. Majority have been introduced with servers that run a lot of scripts, models, and content (even if the content is bad). A lot of them have also been introduced to these things due to popular YouTubers posting videos about it. When they see a stale server or a bland but not generic server, they might have the impression to leave or to stay because it's different from the rest. These players, as said by Danrox, are used to FearRP and FailRP and since it's stupid rules and ByB doesn't enforce it, when players join the server they should get a notification that IS VISIBLE (unlike the damn chat messages, don't even think the majority that joins read those messages as they're just spammed and clogged there and unpleasing to read) stating that the server doesn't enforce these two rules.

Now player's attitude towards administration is all over the place. However, the majority of the randomers that I've met throughout RP Rebirth all hated the fact that you could straight up buy administration without any application or given play time. I somewhat agree with them. If someone is wanting to purchase administration, they should at least meet a time requirement (yes this can be farmed but it stops someone from joining the server then five minutes later purchasing administration and then punishing players falsely which all-in-all leads to the players getting pissed off and leaving). Along with the time requirement, an application should be provided. The application doesn't have to be much: just stating their IGN, answering a few admin situation questions, their purpose for applying and their acknowledgment that they will be punished and possibly have their administration rights removed if they abuse. The applications may or may not be private. The process of these applications should not be automatic and rather should be handled in most cases by Trusted Admin (giving Trusted Admins something to do, ya know, since they're right now equivalent to normal Admin just with sbans - unlike the old days), with the help of the higher staff. While on the topic of administration, when the player is posting their application, they should be directed to an up-to-date administration manual, with rules and precautions and scenarios for them to understand as well as all the available commands to administrators.

From my perspective, I've also seen many players leave simply because no administrator is responding to their reports, regardless if there are 6 admins on. Players feel like they are not being cared for. Even if the report is just about RDM, responding to it will show the players that hey, the administrators and upper staff care for them. The whole rule "if I'm not Admin on Duty I don't have to respond" attitude is bullsmeg. You purchase administrator to administrate and enforce rules. At least respond to reports and not leave people hanging and then leaving. This area is lacking extremely, and I would say it is one of the biggest reasons why many people leave the server.

Addon & Content
The addition of cars to the map was a great idea. It allowed for somewhat of a money sink, a reason to play and aim for something and generally attracted players. Now from there on, what is there for players to purchase and have fun with? Nothing really, just some hats that were set to be extremely expensive for money sinking. There needs to be a more of a dynamic kind of element to the game. Such as what Danrox said, questing. A quest to obtain a specific car and deliver it before time runs out (this can be a criminal NPC, sitting in a dark alleyway or somewhere ghetto) - the car said by the NPC would be fetched from the current spawned cars. There needs to be more of a reason to play, and a reason to actually gain cash and purchase something - not just hats and cars as that gets really boring quickly.

More RP jobs. Many players nowadays in DarkRP are used to a bunch of jobs. Now I'm not saying that the jobs should be useless jobs, just to fill space. Jobs that actually have an RP reason to be there, and have the ability to do something specific. Such as the mechanic job, for example, that was a great job as it added a new type of RP to do which included content for the player to do the job. Something to suggest is like a chef job, where the player has to purchase certain entities and make food and sell it on a stall or wherever they set up. The food would give minor buffs to players that eat it, being cheaper than medicine. Buffs such as health, speed etc. And no, not including a hunger and thirst bar that would go down over time - that's just annoying.

Currently there is literally nothing to do with a civilian other than run around. Civilians should have the most possible ways to obtain money - legally. Obviously not the fastest or most profitable, but should have plenty of legal jobs and activities to do. Currently, the civilian does jack smeg while others take up the theif jobs and just farm printers etc.

Supporters. Oh, I remember back in the days when supporter was glorious. Currently, I see supporter not really worth it. The jobs that come with it are meh, the perks that come with it are meh and lacking. There isn't really much to supporter, I mean people are paying 15 quid for it - they should gain a fair amount of content and in some degree should overrule the normal player (such as the secret agent job which had that OP crossbow if you knew how to aim it - one shot killing anyone without armor).

The gunpack. Oh boy here we go again. I mean, just head to the thread started by Jelman about switching from FA:S to M9K. M9K is better than FA:S in multiplayer. FA:S is annoyingly loud and laggy. FA:S is just as OP in aspects to M9K. M9K also has a larger variety, and more settings to tweak for a better gameplay. As Danrox said, M9K also works with Novacars drive-by shooting which is currently on the server.

Printers. Printers are boring. Many players want more interaction with their printers. Actually cooling it, applying upgrades to stop it over heating, all that jazz. It adds something todo, rather than just sit their in the base and do nothing. The growing of weed and cooking of cocaine is all good. There should be a bit more ways to make cash - spice things up a bit and change of gameplay.

Cocaine and weed selling needs more flair to it. It's so easy to just sell the stuff and not be arrested by cops. Players should have to make deliveries to different points on the map. This would allow the police to have the ability to catch them, as well as have some police chase. Not only that, when carrying cocaine it's not that light. Player's speed should be decreased a tiny bit to account the weight of carrying cocaine - perhaps determined on how much cocaine the player is carrying. Speaking of carrying, limiting on how much the player can carry in cocaine and weed should be a thing. This forces player's to make multiple deliveries rather than just a single trip with all their load. Selling cocaine and weed shouldn't be a breeze in the park. It definitely needs improvement on terms of risk and the way it is sold.

The content for Police is quite nice at the moment. I don't really feel much needs to be added there except a NEW ARREST BATON! Bloody hell, the current one is so damn awful that half the time the person doesn't even get arrested when you're spamming the damn thing infront of their face.

Economy
The economy needs to be well thought out. What I propose is that there should be a wallet wipe - WITH THE BLOODY GIFT CODES OF RP CASH! Those gift codes have ruined the damn economy each time. 12mill starting cash, boom. They have everything. Yes people purchased the codes, but they purchased it a very long time ago. It's time to let go on them - for the better. The economy should have a steady increase in cash, not too fast and not too slow with content for players to purchase. Making items not cost expensive or cheap. For instance, owning a bugatti on the server shouldn't be the common seeing. It should be rare, it's an expensive car afterall. I remember how many times players had said that they joined the server a day or two and already have over a million. Hell, I remember back in the old days when getting a million took a lot of time. The cocaine selling really needs to be adjusted, the pricing and whole setup of selling it. Same with weed. Obviously not making the cost unworthy to do.

Money needs to go somewhere with purpose. A hat costing 20million isn't going to encourage the majority of players to obtain. They are just going to ignore it. Making everything skyrocketing expensive isn't a way to compensate for masses amount of cash in player's wallets. The cost of items should correspond with how fast you can obtain cash with the various jobs.

The cost of weapons currently is not a bad idea at all. Making pistols much cheaper than shotguns and assault and sniper rifles is a good idea. It encourages player's to purchase pistols more, allowing for different gameplay. It brings up small gang and violance with citizens too. It's obvious that big gangs would probably have assault rifles.

Taken from Danrox, "Gang systems where they can buy upgrades for a fair bit of cash. As well as all gang members being able to chip in cash to the gang, the gang with the most money will be on the top of a leaderboard which should be visible both in-game and on the forums. Then watch as players try to top that making their wallets lower but their gang cash higher (This gang cash can only be used on upgrades and can't be withdrawn)". I agree with this system, adds a place to spend cash with mates. Leaderboards is always a good thing, it gives players competition.

Administration of Upper Staff
Now, it is all fun and all when Super's and Root's fool around - but it's only fun to them. Being on the sidewalk all of a sudden blown up due to a grenade that isn't meant to be obtained is fairly annoying. Anything relating to being randomly killed due to things that aren't mean to be it is just wrong. This has pissed people off and made them leave the server. I mean sure, messing around here and there isn't a bad thing but when it involves others who aren't taking part then it's a problem. Also, favoritism. As said in previous posts, it's something that can't be stopped but should be less of. Oh, also taking in more people for Trusted should be a thing and not just because they are on Teamspeak a lot with other staff members. Hell, Caspari (sorry for picking you out mate) for instance has been the only one promoted, in absolute ages, without interaction on Teamspeak with other staff. That's how it should be.



That's my input. Wrote this when I woke up, there is bound to be errors, repetition etc. RP Rebirth has the basis laid down. It just needs to be developed ontop of and improved. The economy needs to be wiped imo.



Something aside here. ByB shouldn't stick just to Garry's Mod. ByB should open servers for different games, and not just abadone the server after a week or two. Building up a server takes time, of course. For instance, FiveM - GTAV, setting up an RP server for that would be great. Although, it is a smeg due to the documentation being smeg and the whole scripting of it being horsesmeg. But there are other games where a server could be setup and played on. Minecraft modded for example, that does attract people and can be maintained. It might not last forever as at some points you do finish the modpack, but hell even if it's just for a month or two. Just a thought that came into my mind here, and perhaps something that should be considered.

Offline olicool11

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Re: Problems of ByB
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 03:08 pm »
Re the point on other servers made by Skytron/Loqrin/zuluchief whatever your name is on here ;) I am currently ridiculously busy till the 11th but from then onward I want to plow a bunch of time into a GTA5 RP server, I know Conor and other admins are also willing to input time into this. In advance- there is no timetable for this, if we can't make it to the standard that we and others expect from it then it won't happen, that being said we would all be doing our best to make sure that isn't the case and I'm pretty sure we could actually make something exciting and new for that demographic.

As for the suggestions on this thread; content is very difficult to balance, too little and people moan that there isn't enough to do, too much and it tends to become diluted timewasting smege that's not used by anybody and is there just for the sake of being there. I do have a couple of ideas that I think could, at least to some extent, work as a moneysink for the economy while also providing some new mechanics and content to the gamemode. I've actually found a similar addon to what I want on gmod store so with some fairly extensive tweaking it might appear at sometime provided that the other roots like the idea, I'll talk about it more once we have discussed it properly.

The arrest baton is smeg there is no other way to describe it, but again that's another balancing act between smeging useless and being able to arrest somebody that's the other end of the street. That being said we can actually tweak the settings for this at least so it can be looked at relatively easily.

Regarding admins smeging about, we discipline those that are reported to us and can't really do more than that. A lot of the players that moan "x is abusing y" is summarized nicely by Danrox, the current breed of darkRP player is just the sort that smegs at admins when pretty much anything happens.