July 23, 2019, 09:15 am

Author Topic: On Kidnappers  (Read 1436 times)

Offline VoceTyrannis

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On Kidnappers
« on: July 26, 2018, 04:40 am »
The kidnapper job as it is now should not exist.

However, I was thinking and I had a few ideas to maybe improve the job and make it viable for good and entertaining RP.

1. Allow kidnappers to base with gangs. This would allow kidnappers to have more of a chance of effectively defending hostages and would allow for interesting RP situations (we kidnapped your gang leader, pay us to get him back, etc)

2. Something to prevent victims from adverting or calling 911 for a short time after being snatched. As it is now, as soon as you have someone in your clutches, they just immediately call 911 and the cops come. However, why would a kidnapping victim be able to call 911? I'd recommend that only being blocked for like 5 minutes, though, otherwise you could end up with victims who could not afford to pay ransom or people who are otherwise unable to negotiate their release being stuck indefinitely, as suiciding out would be failrp. This would allow the kidnapper to maybe actually RP out a kidnapping situatiom rather than simply kidnap->get raided ad infinitum.

3. Make kidnapper similar to hitman; people choose a target to get snatched rather than killed. This has great potential, such as removing a pesky SWAT or mayor from the city for a longer period of time than just killing him or her.

Honestly, I think they would work great, even as they are now, if they were allowed to be members of a gang.

Or just remove the job.

pls no bully
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Offline Purdigeh

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2018, 01:46 pm »
These are actually some pretty good ideas. I've always been in the boat of just do away with the job entirely, but you might've changed my mind.

I quite like your first idea, it could make for interesting political roleplay. i.e. the mayor is kidnapped, held for ransom by a gang. Solid idea if done right.

Idea #2 is something that should've been implemented a year and a half ago. People who've been kidnapped shouldn't have the ability to call the police. I'd rather they be unable to call the police period, but I think that's a bit too drastic in terms of actual gameplay. Some poor fella would probably get stuck forever, so I'm a fan of the 5 minute lockout period from using /911. Another solid idea.

#3 Is something I can get behind within the correct context. I don't want people going about having folks kidnapped for no legitimate reason. Maybe they should have to provide a reason when the kidnap GUI opens and they select a player - failing to provide a reason should not allow the kidnapping to be placed. This should all be logged for admins in case of abuse too. And for the roleplay aspects of this, having the leader of your rival gang tortured sounds fun.

Overall, you've got some good ideas here. And while I've also considered the kidnapper to be simply an annoyance and a bit smege, your suggestions would improve my opinion dramatically. Or at least I reckon so.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 01:47 pm by Purdigeh »

Offline Sirdog

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2018, 03:55 pm »
I have a hard time deciding how I feel about the kidnapper job. Pls no bully.
 
On one hand, being kidnapped seems overwhelmingly inconvenient, more so than would be acceptable for roleplay. While it is impossible to not be inconvenienced when everyone you interact with is a real person, we as a community have to balance what roleplay features we want and how that affects a player's overall experience.
 
Arresting people is a perfect example of this. We, as a community, have opted to allow a tool called the "arrest baton" to be used to instantaneously send someone to prison for five minutes without them having any way to escape themselves. While the player is inconvenienced for this time, we have decided such inconvenience is acceptable for the sake of simulating an arrest.
 
I cannot count the amount of times arguments spur up in OOC regarding the semantics of the rules and the roleplay features versus an acceptable gaming experience. People seem to think that it is only acceptable to focus on one of the extremes when that simply is not the case.
 
On the other hand, kidnapping is a very real thing and can procure some interesting roleplayed scenarios. Such as the aforementioned kidnapping of a gang leader or Mayor.
 
As the job stands now, I, on a personal level, believe the job should be let go; the pros of the job do not outway the cons.
 
However, in the event the job stays, I believe the ideas proposed by VoceTyrannis are very good changes that would make it leagues better than it is now.
 
In regard to my specific opinions on them, I ditto everything Prodigy said to a tee.
 


However, I do have another idea to bring to the table. I am by no means hijacking the thread, VoceTyrannis is bringing up some good smeg!
 
#4 I believe that a person should not be allowed to be kidnapped for longer than 30-40 minutes. After this time they should be freed without issue. Whilst that is incredibly unrealistic, as I mentioned above, we need to balance roleplay with an acceptable gaming experience.
 
A timer should start whenever an individual is kidnapped (much like the NLR timer, though staff should be able to use it to see other peoples timers; perhaps a timer limit should be put in place so there isn't strain on the server if that'll be an issue). That way in the event the individual reports their kidnapper for being kidnapped for an absurd amount of time a staff member can easily review the report.
 
I'm aware this idea isn't particularly good, and am aware that the kidnapped time seems very extreme, but I'm trying to balance the victim being inconvenienced by the kidnapping with them just AFK'ing to do smeg-all if the timer is only 10 or so minutes. I also wanted to present a possible solution in lieu of just stating a problem and expecting other's to fix it.

(Edited by Prodigy at the request of Sirdog)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 07:59 am by Purdigeh »

Offline Jamie

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2018, 05:04 pm »
no. it's a good job. you are wrong.

Offline AdamS

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2018, 06:29 pm »
Quote
Just remove the job.
There is no proper way to fix the Kidnapper. It just needs removed.

It's going to get to the point to where some asshat starts kidnapping new players and forcing them to quit because they:
  • Can't suicide. Some asshat will be quick to punish them for this.
  • Are forced to wait indefinitely or pay a high price (because no set max?)
  • Being kidnapped is smeging boring and provides no RP whatsoever for either party.

Offline Purdigeh

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2018, 09:32 pm »
This is in response to Sirdog, his post was accidentally modified and deleted, however I've quoted relevant parts.

Quote
#4 I believe that a person should not be allowed to be kidnapped for longer than 30-40 minutes

I think this is a great idea, however I disagree with the timeframe of 30-40 minutes. I think a more realistic (less bloody annoying) timeframe of 10-25 minutes is good enough. Maybe extend it slightly for the major or other government workers as if roleplay occurs, it may perhaps take longer than 10-25mins.

Quote
A timer should start whenever an individual is kidnapped (much like the NLR timer, though staff should be able to use it to see other peoples timers; though perhaps a timer limit should be put in place so there isn't strain on the server if that'll be an issue).

Another good idea here, however I was thinking more a long the lines of the jail timer. i.e. someone is kidnapped, the timeframe begins at say... 20 minutes and is displayed at the bottom of the screen. The idea of staff being able to see timers, maybe similar to the e2snooper is also a fantastic idea and is something I'd like to see if any of this is implemented.

I've got an idea of myself to add, however I'm not entirely convinced it's all too great. Since I mentioned a kidnapping timer similar to the jail timer, perhaps implement a system that places a temporary kidnap position. Similar to setting jail pos. This could  happen after the person wakes up from being knocked out cold, and expand in a mild radius around that area they're in. If they don't  make it out of the kidnappers lair via roleplay and the timer ticks down,  maybe they could  be teleported back to spawn? So pretty much exactly like how jailing works.

I'm aware it's not all that amazing of an idea and I'm not so sure I'd like to actually see it happen, but I thought I'd post it nonetheless.




Offline VoceTyrannis

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2018, 05:08 am »
Quote
Just remove the job.
There is no proper way to fix the Kidnapper. It just needs removed.

It's going to get to the point to where some asshat starts kidnapping new players and forcing them to quit because they:
  • Can't suicide. Some asshat will be quick to punish them for this.
  • Are forced to wait indefinitely or pay a high price (because no set max?)
  • Being kidnapped is smeging boring and provides no RP whatsoever for either party.

The simple solution is to set a max bail price and make kidnapping a hired job, as suggested above

However, while I disagree with your opinion that it is unfixable, I do agree that in its current state it should be removed, at least until it is fixed.

AutoMerge: July 27, 2018, 05:11 am
The hard thing aboutthat is setting a good price. A max of 2-5kwould be nothing to veterans, making kidnapping them pointless, and extremely crippling to newcomers. However a max of anything higher may be trouble for veterans, but it would be impossible for a new player to pay.

Example: while I was messing around with kidnapper for those 2 days, I would end up releasing a majority of my victims that I didn't recognize from years back simply because they physically couldn't afford bail (which was set at 5k).

AutoMerge: July 27, 2018, 05:12 am
honestly, as of now, until the job goes through major rework it needs to be taken out of the game.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 05:12 am by VoceTyrannis »
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Offline Danrox147

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2018, 01:11 am »
The kidnapper job is fine, it's just how they usually work that is annoying.

Make the black out time at least 30+ seconds so they have enough time to actually take you somewhere.

The most annoying part so far is when they just bludgeon you and take your stuff then run off. Kind of enforce them to actually kidnap you rather than just take all of your stuff and piss off with it.

The idea of them working with gangs and smeg is a cool idea imo, even possibly allow them to sell bludgeons for a few thousand $ to gang members?
                                   ^^^^ Very True ^^^^

Offline VoceTyrannis

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2018, 01:36 am »
i agrre with you up until the selling bludgeons part; imagine 6 people with bludgeons running around the city. *shudder*

However, maybe increase the amount of KN to 3? That way you have more people with thr ability and it would balance out intergamg fights (more than one gang can get a kidnapper).
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Offline Danrox147

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 02:24 am »
i agrre with you up until the selling bludgeons part; imagine 6 people with bludgeons running around the city. *shudder*

However, maybe increase the amount of KN to 3? That way you have more people with thr ability and it would balance out intergamg fights (more than one gang can get a kidnapper).

By selling bludgeons enforce they are used for kidnapping and not just smeging mass stealing peoples stuff lmao. Or still at least kidnapper hiring
                                   ^^^^ Very True ^^^^

Offline VoceTyrannis

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2018, 06:23 am »
i agrre with you up until the selling bludgeons part; imagine 6 people with bludgeons running around the city. *shudder*

However, maybe increase the amount of KN to 3? That way you have more people with thr ability and it would balance out intergamg fights (more than one gang can get a kidnapper).

By selling bludgeons enforce they are used for kidnapping and not just smeging mass stealing peoples stuff lmao. Or still at least kidnapper hiring

The problem with that is the fact that we have trouble enforcing basic things already...

Coupled with that, unless an admin witnessed the offense, you can't really dispeove the " I was kidnapping them but the knovkout timer expired" excuse that will inevitably arise. It would be extremely hard to fairly moderate situations arising from the preponderance of bludgeons arising from the ability to buy thrm
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Offline Tschudy

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2018, 10:16 am »
Timing is honestly the problem.  When you kidnap someone, youre basically turning off the game for them.  theres no secret passage to sneak out of, they can't Mcguyver a key out of a paperclip and the keys you happened to drop, they can't starve to death without said kidnapper whining about failRP.  Lets look at being arrested in comparison.  Happens frequently but it only lasts 5 minutes so most people don't care much (unless it was unwarranted).  Basically allow people to suicide out after 5 minutes if they so desire after giving an appropriate /me command.
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Offline BlueNova

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 11:06 am »
I agree with Tschudy in saying that timing is my biggest gripe with kidnapper.

Granted I think the job could benefit from a few changes to make it more enticing but also the timing in being kidnapped. Personally whenever the issue is presented to me I just tell people wait around 10 minutes or so after being kidnapped and if nothing develops they should be free to suicide out. Because let's face it, basically putting your play time on hold for 10 minutes is rather annoying and any shorter should just be in danger of "FailRP" kind of like suicide out of being arrested.

In regards to the time that you would need to let pass before you can leave your holding, rather than have the word differ from various staff members, just default it to 5 or 10 minutes in the rules.

As for overall changes to the job, I actually like the idea of making it similar to hitman in essence to where you can pay for someone to be kidnapped. Though I believe that's possible now, just no one really acts upon it.

I'm also in favor of them being allowed to work/base with gangs.

Really when it comes to kidnappers just being annoying with their bludgeons or just kind of doing the job poorly, I feel like that can just be fixed by a moderator/administrator just telling them to try harder at playing the job.

I would really hate to see this job be removed or just cast away into the void because it's not one of the big bad jobs with spawned weapons that can get into massive raid wars (such as Secret Agent, SWAT, etc)

Offline Lexi's Inferior

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 11:47 am »
Lets just face it, people are having too much fun on our servers, so we added kidnapper to cure fun.

Offline AdamS

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Re: On Kidnappers
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2018, 05:43 pm »
Should just outright ban kidnapping in public. That would fix half of the damn issue.